Re: mailing list archive

Doh -- I thought my dataset included everything, but it instead just
covers every article I can think of between:

> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 22:53:39 BST
> From: whitaker@eternity.demon.co.uk (Russell E. Whitaker)
> Reply-To: whitaker@eternity.demon.co.uk
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Cc: whitaker@eternity.demon.co.uk

and the present.  I'm also feeling tempted to incorporate the archives of
some of the offshoot mailing lists, like coderpunks, etc.  

Does anyone know of a good source for the messages before that one?  How
many were there, approximately?  If there are a bunch of them and you can
merge them with mine, I'll be happy to send you a cd of the result.

If enough people want to buy CDs of the data, I'll set up an order page,
establish pricing, etc.  Right now, for me to make a CD requires buying
media and doing it at the media lab, unless I buy a drive, so the cost
is somewhat dependent upon how many people are interested.  If someone wants
to use corporate or government money to overpay for a cd so I can buy
a cd-r writer and make it cheaper for everyone else, I'll think fondly of
whatever organization you represent :)  

Utterly ignoring the copyright issues in the interest of getting wide
dispersal, especially since it's unlikely anyone cares since no one will
get rich selling cypherpunks cd-roms,
Ryan
(the last time I wished for something in parenthetical postscript it worked.
Wish granting service, will you please make the people of the world 
clueful enough to replace governmental/military force with cryptography?  Or
convince one of my professors that they should sign a blank thesis?)
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/

At 11:27 AM -0700 11/18/97, Ryan Lackey wrote:

>Does anyone know of a good source for the messages before that one?  How
>many were there, approximately?  If there are a bunch of them and you can
>merge them with mine, I'll be happy to send you a cd of the result.

You should talk to Hugh Daniel, who has a project to put the entire
archives of the list from toad.com on a server, or whatever. (Hugh is
working hard on the SWAN project, so this may be on the back burner.)

My understanding is that essentially complete archives exist, possibly with
some overlaps that would need some tuning or filtering, since the list went
online in October 1992. (Until, of course, toad.com stopped being the host
of the list.)

I presume there must be "merge and filter out dupes" programs, based on
message ID or some hash of the contents, to allow the many separate
archives to be dumped into one giant data base and then sorted to weed out
dupes.


>If enough people want to buy CDs of the data, I'll set up an order page,
>establish pricing, etc.  Right now, for me to make a CD requires buying
>media and doing it at the media lab, unless I buy a drive, so the cost
>is somewhat dependent upon how many people are interested.  If someone wants
>to use corporate or government money to overpay for a cd so I can buy
>a cd-r writer and make it cheaper for everyone else, I'll think fondly of
>whatever organization you represent :)

You don't need to ask for donations...either use a CD-R burning service and
charge enough to cover your costs and a bit more, or take a small gamble
and set yourself up as your own CD-R burner (something you'll want for your
Eternity Service anyway...for backups if for nothing else). I'm skeptical
of charityware projects...

A CD-ROM is no more expensive than a Cypherpunks t-shirt, and there have
been several different versions of them. All done without asking for
donations.

I'll certainly order one or two of these CD-ROMs, if they're done
reasonably well.

The CD-ROM ought to be in format readable by the major platforms, which is
usually not a big problem, if the right protocol is used. And probably just
in sendmail "linear" file format, so that the mailers we have can read the
file in. Getting fancy with sorting the messages into subdirectories would
get hairy. Possibly the files could be arranged by month, or year. Many of
the "Web archives," e.g., of the Extropians and Cypherpunks lists,
apparently organize by months and years, so this software may already be
available for you to use.

I don't think you need to buy a CD-R for this one-shot product (though CD-R
drives are now very cheap and you might want one for yourself, anyway). A
vast number of services have sprung up to do this for you, for reasonable
fees. Check the ad pages of any of the PC magazines, or do a Web search.

(The way it works is that one sends them a disk drive, or Bernoullis, or MO
disks, or tapes, properly formatted, and they do a run of disks. I have no
idea what you have available, but you ought to be able to get access to an
external 650 MB hard disk, which can then be taken down to a local burner
outfit, probably one near you in Cambridge or Boston. They hook up the
drive, transfer the files, and make the run.)

A service will even label the CD-ROMs produced.

>
>Utterly ignoring the copyright issues in the interest of getting wide
>dispersal, especially since it's unlikely anyone cares since no one will
>get rich selling cypherpunks cd-roms,

I wouldn't count on this. I think you can assume that at least _someone_
will raise a stink, if only to see the sparks fly (to mix some metaphors).
At least someone will threaten to sue, claiming that their words are
copyrighted.

Furthermore, many of the posts over the years have contained copyrighted
newspaper articles, copyrighted programs, even stolen material.

This shouldn't discourage you, necessarily, and you may be able to use some
protections as a "archiver" rather than as a "editor."

(BTW, using editorial discretion to remove some items, such as "Wall Street
Journal" copyrighted articles, or ASCII art insults, or RC4 code apparently
liberated from RSADSI, etc., will _increase_ your liability and exposure,
not decrease it. For you will then unambiguously be making editorial
choices, and hence certain protections lapse.)

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

At 01:27 PM 11/18/1997 EST, Ryan Lackey wrote:
>If enough people want to buy CDs of the data, I'll set up an order page,
>establish pricing, etc.  Right now, for me to make a CD requires buying
>media and doing it at the media lab, unless I buy a drive, so the cost
>is somewhat dependent upon how many people are interested.  If someone wants

Remember that there's a lot of code in cypherpunks mail,
at least in the early history of the list :-)
So there's some risk of export restrictions applying,
and you might have to limit your sales to Real Americans
(or at least Real American mailing addresses.)
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, stewarts@ix.netcom.com
Regular Key PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639