Best Cypherpunk long gun

What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?

At 11:11 PM -0700 12/22/97, Mix wrote:
>What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?

(This is probably some sort of troll, but I'll answer it anyway.)

For what purpose? For what range? How much money do you want to spend?

I can tell you that for close quarters defense, against Home Invaders (of
either the Vietnames gang sort or the Washington gang sort), I count on an
Olympic Arms OA-96 pistol, in .223. Though technically a pistol, because of
the 6.5-inch barrel and pistol grip, it fires 30 rounds of high-speed .223
Remington, able to rip through ballistic vests like butter. The small size
makes it manouverable in tight quarters. It has a laser on it, and I also
use the HoloSight described below on it.

For slightly greater ranges, e.g., during daylight, I have a Colt HBAR
Match Target rifle (essentially a Colt AR-15, though that was banned during
the Recent Statist Action, and so the name had to change, along with a few
cosmetic features). This also fires a .223 round, of course, as it is the
standard U.S. military rifle. The HBAR is mounted with a Bushnell
HoloSight, a zero-magnification holographic reticle system, similar to a
"red dot" system (but better). Two-inch groups at a hundred yards are easy
to obtain (limited more by the scope than by the rifle).

(There are rumors that I bought a genuine Colt AR-15 in 1975 and have not
registered it, as required by fascist Kalifornia law. I could tell you if
this is true, but then I'd have to shoot you.)

I also have a Ruger Mini-14 in .223, though I'm not sure it fills a useful
niche. And a Winchester Model 94, a classic cowboy lever action, in .44
Magnum. Again, not necessarily a mainstream gun.

For defending the _perimeter_ of my property against Those Who Would
Trespass, I count on a Remington Model 700 "varmint" rifle, chambered in
.308 (or 7.62 NATO). It's a bolt-action, but the expected use is for
long-range (300 meters) use, aka "sniping." The usual high-power scope.
This rifle is capable of sub-MOA (minute of angle) groups, meaning less
than 1-inch groups at a hundred yards.

Were I to recommend one rifle to meet most needs, it would be some variant
of the AR-15, from Colt or Bushmaster or Olympic Arms, etc. About $800 for
a common variant. No need for a collapsible stock.  This will handle social
needs from short range, to a few hundred yards (maybe more).

There are those who recommend a cheaper SKS or AK-47 variant. I've never
owned one, so can't honestly comment. The concensus in rec.guns and
misc.survivalism seems to be that the AR shoots better and more accurately,
but the AK-47 is more forgiving of bad conditions, dirt, etc. Inasmuch as I
don't expect to be in the desert, or even any mud, I'll take the more
accurate piece.

(The notion that the AR-15/M-16 "jams" is based on 35-year-old early
experiences in Viet Nam, using an early design and early ammo. The jamming
problems were fixed quickly, by changing the forward assist, changing the
ammo a little, and teaching soldiers how to properly clean the weapon.)

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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In <v03102807b0c50470580c@[207.167.93.63]>, on 12/22/97 
   at 11:34 PM, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:

>There are those who recommend a cheaper SKS or AK-47 variant. I've never
>owned one, so can't honestly comment. The concensus in rec.guns and
>misc.survivalism seems to be that the AR shoots better and more
>accurately, but the AK-47 is more forgiving of bad conditions, dirt, etc.
>Inasmuch as I don't expect to be in the desert, or even any mud, I'll
>take the more accurate piece.

Well with my M ...er AR15, yeah AR15, I have sloped it through all kinds
of crap in the field with little trouble. While I have used the A2 models
I have not done extensive field testing with it. The increase in barrel
length seems to be a plus but I have concerns with the change in design of
the sight adjustments and how well they hold up under adverse conditions.
Myself I have never liked scopes on a field weapon, too much of a hassle
better reserved for hunting/snipping.

Never had any serious jamming problems with the exception of using blanks.
Nasty things, never could get through a clip without a jam. Thank god I
never have to use those things anymore, now if only someone could come up
with a "clean" tracer round. :)

- -- 
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Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
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Tim May wrote:
> For defending the _perimeter_ of my property against Those Who Would
> Trespass, I count on a Remington Model 700 "varmint" rifle, chambered in
> .308 (or 7.62 NATO). It's a bolt-action, but the expected use is for
> long-range (300 meters) use, aka "sniping." The usual high-power scope.
> This rifle is capable of sub-MOA (minute of angle) groups, meaning less
> than 1-inch groups at a hundred yards.

Is there any version of Remington 700 (maybe PSS) that accepts 
detachable magazines?

	- Igor.

At 7:32 AM -0700 12/23/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>Tim May wrote:
>> For defending the _perimeter_ of my property against Those Who Would
>> Trespass, I count on a Remington Model 700 "varmint" rifle, chambered in
>> .308 (or 7.62 NATO). It's a bolt-action, but the expected use is for
>> long-range (300 meters) use, aka "sniping." The usual high-power scope.
>> This rifle is capable of sub-MOA (minute of angle) groups, meaning less
>> than 1-inch groups at a hundred yards.
>
>Is there any version of Remington 700 (maybe PSS) that accepts
>detachable magazines?

Yes, the PSS comes with a 5-shot detachable magazine (or at least one is
available for it). And I understand that some gunsmiths can easily adapt
the PSS to talke M1A magazines (the M1A being the civilian-legal version of
the M-14, a semiauto in .308. of course).

The view of most snipers is "Why bother?" If the goal is "one shot, one
kill," make that first shot really, really count. Rapid-fire follow-ups
shots are inconsistent with the idea of sniping.

(If the rapid-fire comes as a freebie, it might be a no-brainer to choose
it over bolt-action. But it isn't a freebie, and semiautos cost a lot more
to equal the accuracy of a bolt-action. Plaster estimates a semi-auto also
takes about 5 times the effort to keep it at high accuracy. As I said
earlier, H & K's excellent PSG-1 is a fine semiauto sniping rifle, but it
costs $10K, retail. This compares to a Remington PSS for about $800,
retail, or a Remington Varmint Synthetic for $700, retail. (Or any number
of fine bolt actions from Winchester, Ruger, Sako, Steyr, etc.)

Also, extreme long-range sniping is increasingly done with .50 BMGs, or
.338 Lapua, or, at the lower end, .300 Winchester Magnums. In all cases,
shot recovery is limited more by the shooter reacquiring the sight picture
than by cycling the action, so a semi-auto is mostly a waste of resources.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

no wonder TCM is so frustrated all the time. forget chips,
forget software, he's really a stymied wannabe gun salesman.

I've almost never complained about off topic posts, but
this is really beyond the limit of all comprehension.

"Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com> writes:

> no wonder TCM is so frustrated all the time. forget chips,
> forget software, he's really a stymied wannabe gun salesman.
>
> I've almost never complained about off topic posts, but
> this is really beyond the limit of all comprehension.

I suppose anything crypto-relevant (i.e. on topic for this list)
would be beyond the limits of a <*S0V0K*>'s comprehension.

I also suppose Sameer Parekh must be very upset that the fascist
US gubmint has censored his favorite sex symbol - Joe the Camel.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

At 10:11 PM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?

  A Solothurn, natch.  For those who don't know:  A circa 1938 20mm
anti-tank rifle; be sure to get the high power telescopic sight.  Why
screw around?  :-)


-landon

 [read _unintended consequences_; as john brunner said: "move in with it"]

landon dyer wrote:
> At 10:11 PM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
> 
>   A Solothurn, natch.  For those who don't know:  A circa 1938 20mm
> anti-tank rifle; be sure to get the high power telescopic sight.  Why
> screw around?  :-)

I am sure that you read about it in _UC_.

>  [read _unintended consequences_; as john brunner said: "move in with it"]

Anyone else thinks that Unintended Consequences is a bad fiction?

	- Igor.

On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mix wrote:

> What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?

There are some howitzers that can deliver nuclear artillery shells at 50+
miles. I think their barrels are pretty long.

:-)
-- Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to> PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"

Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to> writes:

> On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mix wrote:
>
> > What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
>
> There are some howitzers that can deliver nuclear artillery shells at 50+
> miles. I think their barrels are pretty long.

During WWI the germans had something called "Big Bertha". It may have been
longer.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to> writes:
> 
> > On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mix wrote:
> >
> > > What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
> >
> > There are some howitzers that can deliver nuclear artillery shells at 50+
> > miles. I think their barrels are pretty long.
> 
> During WWI the germans had something called "Big Bertha". It may have been
> longer.
> 

Compensating, Her Doktor?  ;)


http://www.valkyriearms.com/m2.htm

BATF approved. Hmmmm ... wonder how fast you can fire this on semi-auto? The 
auto version had a fairly low rate of fire, as I recall. 

Actually, a Colt-Sauer in any of the smaller, flatter shooting cartridges 
will do just fine. One round, one head-shot.

-r.w.

At 1:39 PM +0100 12/23/1997, Lucky Green wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mix wrote:
>
>> What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
>
>There are some howitzers that can deliver nuclear artillery shells at 50+
>miles. I think their barrels are pretty long.

Those looking for shorter range, large payload, weapons with small size and low weight should look into shaped-charge munition projectors.  Relatively easy to build and reliable, they can accelerate items to well over 10,000 fps (depending upon explosive used) and pretty accurately deliver multi-kilogram payloads over a 1/2 mile.  Good against buildings and hardened targets, like tanks, as at this velocity even more conventional projectiles can breech advanced armour.  Major shortcoming is they are use once items and not for close combat ;-)

--Steve