Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments

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>> The next time you "cheer to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked", why
>> don't you think about the American troops who lost their lives or
were
>> maimed, or who were doing something they may have been personally and
>> morally against, but they chose to be professional soldiers, and
instead
>> of displaying cowardice, they tried to do what was asked of them. 

 I prefer to view what Tim said in the context that "Amerika" the ugly
got its tail kicked in the broader sense. I don't believe that Tim took
any pleasure in seeing American soldiers getting killed.

  The fact remains that we, Amerika, did get our tail kicked in Somalia;
like Viet Nam it was little reflection on the troops but a reflection of
the of a command staff being run by Washington DC Apparatchiki all
suffering from cranio-rectal inversion. America deserves all the
ridicule that has been heaped upon it for those fiascos; only ... some
time, maybe we can but hope the we will finally learn at least one
lesson and get it right once before I go for the long sleep!
 

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Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key>

 "Despite the bleating of various socialistically-anointed
 freakshow groups, the vast majority of us realize that bringing
 children into the world is not only the most wonderful endeavor
 with which we can be associated but absolutely essential if we
 aren't going to put ourselves on the EPA's endangered species
 list."  Winston Borden

At 7:22 PM -0800 2/19/98, Brian B. Riley wrote:

>>> The next time you "cheer to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked", why
>>> don't you think about the American troops who lost their lives or
>were
>>> maimed, or who were doing something they may have been personally and
>>> morally against, but they chose to be professional soldiers, and
>instead
>>> of displaying cowardice, they tried to do what was asked of them.
>
> I prefer to view what Tim said in the context that "Amerika" the ugly
>got its tail kicked in the broader sense. I don't believe that Tim took
>any pleasure in seeing American soldiers getting killed.

Precisely. I took no special glee in seeing U.S. soldiers killed in
Somalia. (By the way, I also took no special glee in seeing young Russian
boys burning to death as their Hind helicopter plummeted to the ground
after being hit by a Redeye or Stinger missile...but I was happy to see the
Russian invaders have their asses kicked.)

The United States has undertaken in the last half of this century to get
involved in exactly the sort of "foreign wars" that Washington warned us
of. Adventurism, really.

That some young American boys (and a few girls) die in such vanity wars is
regrettable, but it doesn't change my view of the wars, or the wish I have
that the U.S. lose the wars and so, perhaps, rethink its adventurist,
imperialist, statist, New World Big Brother Order geopolitical view.

Since the lessons really didn't take in past wars, whether won or lost, I'm
really, really, really hoping for a debacle in this one. The sinking of an
aircraft carrier, with the deaths of several thousand young boys, might do
it.

As for their deaths, their choice is to not enlist. Or, if they enlisted,
to refuse to go the Gulf for this war.

(A Santa Cruz local, Erik Larsen, did exactly this in Desert Storm. He
refused to go.)

If they go fight in Clinton's dirty little vanity war, and they get killed,
tough shit. Think of it as evolution in action.

And as for the thread name here, "PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments, it's
reprehensible that the U.S. is pushing a "peace process" which condones
this kind of censorship. Better to just let the Arabs fight the Jews,
without any funding from U.S. slave-taxpayer-units. If the Arabs kill all
the Jews I'll say it was a really, really stupid ideas for a bunch of Jews
from Poland and Germany and Russia to go kick out a bunch of "sand niggers"
and "ragheads" and not expect retribution to someday arrive.

Oh, and spare me the typical Zionist rhetoric about how "YHWH" or Whatever
It's Damned Name Is "promised" this land to the Jews, despite their Polish
or Russian or Ukrainian residency and genetics for thousands of years.

Fucking religious fruitcakes.


--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.

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on or about 980219:2004, in <v0310280eb112ae1ab77c@[207.167.93.63]>, 
    Tim May <tcmay@got.net> was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

    [snip the dead issues on gloating...]

>And as for the thread name here, "PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments,
>it's reprehensible that the U.S. is pushing a "peace process" which
>condones this kind of censorship. Better to just let the Arabs fight the
>Jews, without any funding from U.S. slave-taxpayer-units. If the Arabs
>kill all the Jews I'll say it was a really, really stupid ideas for a
>bunch of Jews from Poland and Germany and Russia to go kick out a bunch
>of "sand niggers" and "ragheads" and not expect retribution to someday
>arrive.
>
    they figure Britain owes Israel to them to atone for Brit   
    guilt for refusing to let them leave Germany for Palestine
    before Hitler reduced the number available to make the trip.

    and since Britain cant go it by themselves anymore, and the
    US has over 50% of the Zionists in the world --Russia being
    in second place-- the 10% of the Zionists in Palestine wag
    the US dog to protect them from "the barbarian Arabs" 
    (their attitude, not mine).

    the argument that Israel is the only true friend to the US
    in the Middle East is pure bullshit; with friends like 
    Israel who take our technology and either steal it directly 
    or reverse engineer it and sell it to China, Iran, South
    Africa who sells to China, etc. --who needs enemies. 

    the Israeli governments have double crossed U.S. interests 
    at most every point --they are a liability. if the U.S. had
    not acquiesced, under pressure of U.S. Zionist and general 
    WWII guilt, to Britain's division of Palestine, the Middle
    East would not be the problem it is --the Arabs plus the 
    Iranians (Farsi, not Arabs) would never have been able to 
    find a common unifying factor --and hate the US accordingly
    for its virtually unquestioning support of Israel.

    the U.S. should withdraw support from both sides of divided
    Palestine and let nature take its course. save the U.S. $5 
    billion dollars in acknowledged aid to Israel every year
    plus whatever amount is hidden in the black budgets, etc.
    plus the additional billions they raise from the guilt 
    ridden American Zionists.

    if there were no Israel, maybe the U.S. Zionists would 
    become Americans rather than Zionists first and residents of
    the U.S. second. if the really rabid ones wont shut up, give
    them an AR16, 200 rounds, and a ticket...

>Oh, and spare me the typical Zionist rhetoric about how "YHWH" or
>Whatever It's Damned Name Is "promised" this land to the Jews, despite
>their Polish or Russian or Ukrainian residency and genetics for thousands
>of years.

    me too...

>Fucking religious fruitcakes.

    you bet, but more than that, it's a class of discordant 
    freeloaders whose interests supersede those of the hand 
    that feeds and protect them.


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In <v0310280eb112ae1ab77c@[207.167.93.63]>, on 02/19/98 
   at 08:04 PM, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:

>And as for the thread name here, "PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments,
>it's reprehensible that the U.S. is pushing a "peace process" which
>condones this kind of censorship. Better to just let the Arabs fight the
>Jews, without any funding from U.S. slave-taxpayer-units. If the Arabs
>kill all the Jews I'll say it was a really, really stupid ideas for a
>bunch of Jews from Poland and Germany and Russia to go kick out a bunch
>of "sand niggers" and "ragheads" and not expect retribution to someday
>arrive.

>Oh, and spare me the typical Zionist rhetoric about how "YHWH" or
>Whatever It's Damned Name Is "promised" this land to the Jews, despite
>their Polish or Russian or Ukrainian residency and genetics for thousands
>of years.

Well the polotics of the middle east and the history of the Jews both in
and out of Israel are much more convoluted that Tim and other would make
it out to be.

I find it quite intresting how members will bemone the plight of the
Plaistinians in Israel yet no one ever mentions the fact that 80% of the
population of Jordan is Palistinian. Nor do they mention the reasons *why*
the PLO was operating out of Lebanon in the 70's and early 80's (for those
of you who don't know it's because they tried to overthrow the government
in Jordan and the King sent the troops out to slaughter them.) Nor is
there any mention that historically there was never any county of
Palistine until the British created it out of what was known as
Trans-Jordan which again was a creation of the British after the defete of
the Ottoman Empire (the Turks for the less informed) durring WWI. Lets not
forget that the British promised both the Jews and the Palistinians their
own country (unfortunatly they promised them both the same peice of land).
And god forbid no one ever mentions the fact that the UN created both a
State of Israel and a State of Palistine in 1945 and the Palistinians
rather than declare thier independence and form a governemnt joined with
the rest of the Arab states in going to war against the Jews currently
living in Palistine. They then were promptly handed their asses by the
Israelies *without* help from the British or the US (as an intresting side
note it was the Russians who were the first to reconise the State of
Israel not any of the western governments).


Now some may wish to extend the lame argument that the British didn't have
the right to carve up the middle east nor did the Jews have the right to
immegrate to Israel. Well the simple fact of the matter is that *every*
country in exsistance today has been created by one group of people
conquering another. All the countries of North *and* South America were
formed that way. The empires of the Incas and Aztecs were formed the same
way. The various tribes of North America gaind control of their "huntting
grounds" by taking them away from those that were there before.


So wine and cry all you want about Israel and the Evil Zionist but they
have the strongest military in the area (and one of the best skilled in
the world) and they have a shitload of Nukes. They ain't going anywhere
with or without any help from the US. (for those of you silly enough to
think the US should force them out or let the Russian backed Arabs do the
job I sugest a reading of the Masada Plan).

- -- 
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William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
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At 8:48 PM -0800 2/19/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>I find it quite intresting how members will bemone the plight of the
>Plaistinians in Israel yet no one ever mentions the fact that 80% of the
>population of Jordan is Palistinian. Nor do they mention the reasons *why*

So? The land taken from a Palestinian farmer and given to a Polish Jew, for
example, remains his, morally. That a neighboring country has many persons
similar to him does not reduce his loss.

80% of Oregon is Aryan, just as I am. And yet if a bunch of Jews, for
example, kicked me off my land, land I had title to, and I fled to Oregon
to live in a tent, I'd still be fighting those who kicked me off my land.
Even if the Jewish Grand Foofah declared that God had "given" California to
the Jews 3000 years ago.

Oregon is under no obligation to absorb the Aryans kicked out of California
by the Jews. And the farm or land lost is still lost, regardless of any
"absorbtion." The canard about how Jordan is racially similar to the
Palestinians is neither here nor there...the Palestinian farmer who used to
grow oranges in Jaffa is hardly satisfied to learn that his land has been
stolen by a Polish Jew, but that neighboring Jordan has a lot of
Palestinians!

(BTW, I use the word Aryan in place of the word Caucasian, which is no
longer in scientific use, and was a dumb characterization of Aryans,
anyway. )

>the PLO was operating out of Lebanon in the 70's and early 80's (for those
>of you who don't know it's because they tried to overthrow the government
>in Jordan and the King sent the troops out to slaughter them.) Nor is
>there any mention that historically there was never any county of
>Palistine until the British created it out of what was known as

Who cares if their was a nation-state or not? Just give them back their
land. Period. Nation-states are a modern creation anyway.

>Trans-Jordan which again was a creation of the British after the defete of
>the Ottoman Empire (the Turks for the less informed) durring WWI. Lets not
>forget that the British promised both the Jews and the Palistinians their
>own country (unfortunatly they promised them both the same peice of land).
>And god forbid no one ever mentions the fact that the UN created both a
>State of Israel and a State of Palistine in 1945 and the Palistinians
>rather than declare thier independence and form a governemnt joined with
>the rest of the Arab states in going to war against the Jews currently
>living in Palistine. They then were promptly handed their asses by the
>Israelies *without* help from the British or the US (as an intresting side
>note it was the Russians who were the first to reconise the State of
>Israel not any of the western governments).

I agree it's a mess. So why is the U.S. sending $5 billion a year extorted
from American slave-units to subsidize Israel's military and lifestyle, and
about as much to Egypt to subsidize whatever corruptions it favors?

I say pull out, stop the funding, and let American Jews send their money if
they want to. Let the Arabs and Jews fight it out. Just don't require me to
pay for it or to pay for soldiers to be sent to defend one side or the
other.

And use crypto and suchlike to destabilize the Zionist regime in various ways.


>Now some may wish to extend the lame argument that the British didn't have
>the right to carve up the middle east nor did the Jews have the right to
>immegrate to Israel. Well the simple fact of the matter is that *every*
>country in exsistance today has been created by one group of people
>conquering another. All the countries of North *and* South America were
>formed that way. The empires of the Incas and Aztecs were formed the same
>way. The various tribes of North America gaind control of their "huntting
>grounds" by taking them away from those that were there before.

Whatever the history lesson, all I ask is that slave labor (taxes) not be
used over there, nor that cannon fodder be sent over there to die.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.

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In <v03102802b112da19e5bd@[207.167.93.63]>, on 02/19/98 
   at 11:23 PM, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:

>So? The land taken from a Palestinian farmer and given to a Polish Jew,
>for example, remains his, morally. That a neighboring country has many
>persons similar to him does not reduce his loss.

Well before the Israel war of Independence no one was kicked off their
farmland. There was a native population of Jews that lived there and own
their own land. Those who migrated there durring the 1st half of the
century *bought* the land that they lived on and also actively created new
land that was fallow. Much of the current farmland in Israel was not
stolen from the Arabs but came from swamps that were drained and deserts
that were irrigated (much of Israel was either swamp or desert before the
Jewish Immigration started).

The plight of the plaistinians after 1945 is known as the "spoils of war"
and since the palestinians were the *aggressor* I have no simpathy for
them (ya pay your money ya take your chances).

<sigh> It is really no surprise that so few Americans have any
understanding of the History or Politics of the region.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
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It's interesting that there has been much effort recently to return
property stolen in the '30s and '40s by Nazis and communists to the
descendents of the original owners.  For example a Romanian friend
recently got his family farm back.  And then there is the "Swiss/Nazi 
gold" thing.  But, so far, I haven't heard many calls for refunds and
property returns in the middle east.

bd

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, it was written:

>[...]
> 
> >Now some may wish to extend the lame argument that the British didn't have
> >the right to carve up the middle east nor did the Jews have the right to
> >immegrate to Israel. Well the simple fact of the matter is that *every*
> >country in exsistance today has been created by one group of people
> >conquering another. All the countries of North *and* South America were
> >formed that way. The empires of the Incas and Aztecs were formed the same
> >way. The various tribes of North America gaind control of their "huntting
> >grounds" by taking them away from those that were there before.
>