The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...) (fwd)

Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 00:51:11 -0600
> From: Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li>
> Subject: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)

> Sound paranoid?  Try this.  I'd like everyone who reads this to try and go
> 45 days without using plastic or writing a check.  Just 45 days.  If you
> don't grow alarmist very quickly (like in the first week) I'd like to hear
> your experience.

I've been doing it for many years. Don't have a checking account, don't own
a credit card. I do have a saving account with a local credit union and
go in every 3-4 days and withdraw what I need for the next 3-4 days. Pay
every bill in cash or money order. I'm not going into how I invest my
excess capital. If my employer needs me to travel I do it on their plastic.
The only irritating thing I find is that I can't walk into grocery stores any
more and get money orders larger than $700 and many won't do it for more than
$400. I have to pay my rent each month with a $400 and a $397 money order in
order to meet the $797 amound due because I'm too lazy to drive the extra
6-8 blocks to the one who will do the $700 money orders. Other than that I
don't have a problem at all.

I'm going to go tomorrow and buy a new laptop at around $1500. I intend on
paying with a wad of $100 bills. Bet you they don't look twice nor will they
ask for ID.

I've actualy never had a problem paying cash, never had anyone turn real
money down...


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Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com> writes:
>                                    Don't have a checking account, don't own
> a credit card.

Minor nit: most people who do use credit cards don't "own" them either.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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on or about 980202:0109, in <199802020709.BAA27402@einstein.ssz.com>, 
    Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com> was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>I've been doing it for many years. Don't have a checking account, don't
>own a credit card. I do have a saving account with a local credit union
>and go in every 3-4 days and withdraw what I need for the next 3-4 days.
>Pay every bill in cash or money order. 

first, the use of the credit union includes your SSN and
they have a total cash transaction at least on your primary
expenses.  if you have "consulting" income which can be
converted to cash, and dont deposit it, then you can do you
'high on the hawg' living with the cash --until they bring
the IRS CID along and look at your 'imputed' income which is
almost indefensible in their kangaroo courts.

secondly, you have not dealt with a federal case where there
is implied evidence as they find a clerk in the usual store
you use...

 [snip]
>I'm going to go tomorrow and buy a new laptop at around $1500. 

    what are you getting for $1500? out here in the boonies 
    we dont see those kind of prices.

>I intend
>on paying with a wad of $100 bills. Bet you they don't look twice nor
>will they ask for ID.

    well, in the first place, you live in Texas where the
    attitude to the Feds is rather strong --not as strong as our
    attitude in rural Utah where the usual transaction is in
    cash.  out here, a Fed is the same as a revenuer in Eastern
    Kentucky or Tennessee.  reminds me of the Fed approaching a
    child and telling him he'd give him $5 if he took him to his
    father (still) --the boy asked for the money up front. when
    the Fed asked why, the boy said: "...'cause you aint coming 
    back".

>I've actualy never had a problem paying cash, never had anyone turn real
>money down...

    I did-- tried to lay $14K out for a Mercedes (25 years ago).
    they wouldnt take it.  so I went and picked up two $7K
    cashiers from two different banks.  same thing with a pair
    of Lycoming IO540 aircraft engines:  2 8s and a 9 --stay
    under the $10K transaction.
    
    of course, if you want to take care of the problem:  use a
    chartered blind "Queens' trust over an Antilles NV, a Dutch
    BV, and an FL AG --of course with a friendly banker who just
    arranges to have the bill paid from a correspondent US bank
    --and who pays your European American Express card for
    you...  need cash under $10K?  use an FL bank card.
    Both the Antilles and Dutch banks are porous, so they
    remain shells paid from the bottom up.
    
    so where is digital cash?  probably the most amusing article
    on digital cash is the Neal Stephenson article:  "The Great
    Simolean Caper" which was in:  Time Mag's Special Issue,
    Spring 1995 Volume 145, No.  12.  yes, it presents "our"
    side of it, but shows the backside and obvious ammo for
    Freeh...  it does not seem to be available on the Time
    server, so anyone who wants to read it:
    
         http://www.primenet.com/~attila/pages/simolean.html

    until we really do have a virtual country and virtual 
    cash, they will always be able to trace it.  As I 
    understand it, the banks keep a record on anything over 
    $1k cash which means there is a master list which can 
    be sorted and filtered. over $10K you must fill out the 
    IRS form; for international you are required to file
    Dept of the Treasury form 515.

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Attila T. Hun wrote:

>     until we really do have a virtual country and virtual
>     cash, they will always be able to trace it.  As I
>     understand it, the banks keep a record on anything over
>     $1k cash which means there is a master list which can
>     be sorted and filtered. over $10K you must fill out the
>     IRS form; for international you are required to file
>     Dept of the Treasury form 515.

Ironically, the reglations may be their own undoing here.  It seems most
banks have decided to recoup the expense of all that paperwork by charging
per-transaction ATM fees.  And customers hate transaction fees, so they
tend to take out as much money as possible each time they use the ATM.