Re: Letter of the law

Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute
an act of export??

> From jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu Sat Feb 14 02:07:45 1998
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> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:27:29 -0500 (EST)
> From: Ken Williams <jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu>
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> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: Letter of the law
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> On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Anonymous wrote:
> 
> >>I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
> >>I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
> >>I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
> >>walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
> >>a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
> >>it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
> >>will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
> >>Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 
> >
> >My guess is this:
> >  if it has the name of a US citizen in the copyright
> >notice, it will be assumed to have been made in the
> >US. if the morons even go after you. you still may have
> >a plausable excuse if ever taken to court.
> >after all, you "exported" youself, which is a perfectly
> >legal thing to take out of the country, and "yourself"
> >accidentally spewed a copy of something that couldn't
> >cross the border.
> >I don't think anybody has tried this and been challenged.
> >then again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity.
> >It's easier to ask forgivness than permission...
> >Another easier excuse would be to publish it freely in
> >hardcopy form, and just "happen" to have somebody end up
> >"typing" in your source code abroad, making a legit
> >international copy...
> >-Anon2
> 
> i would think that the big question here, legally, is whether or not you
> would be ustilizing a US ISP and/or cellular provider to make the upload
> of the crypto program to the foreign server via ftp.  as long as all the
> packets stay outside of US borders, in other words, as long as you don't
> use a US ISP and cellular provider, then i don't see how you would be
> violating any laws in this case.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> TATTOOMAN 
> 
> http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/
> 
Bob De Witt,
rdew@el.nec.com
The views expressed herein are my own,
and are not attributable to any other
source, be it employer, friend or foe.

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Bob De Witt wrote:

>Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute
>an act of export??

well, yes, of course.  that was taken for granted in my comments.
likewise, if you go to a tattoo parlor and get the infamous 4 line
crypto-sig tattooed on your ass, then you are classified as a munition,
and you cannot leave the US.

the only relevant question here regards the odds that a US Customs officer
is going to want you to drop your drawers and bend over...
;-)

ken 

>> >>I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
>> >>I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
>> >>I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
>> >>walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
>> >>a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
>> >>it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
>> >>will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
>> >>Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 
>> >
>> >My guess is this:
>> >  if it has the name of a US citizen in the copyright
>> >notice, it will be assumed to have been made in the
>> >US. if the morons even go after you. you still may have
>> >a plausable excuse if ever taken to court.
>> >after all, you "exported" youself, which is a perfectly
>> >legal thing to take out of the country, and "yourself"
>> >accidentally spewed a copy of something that couldn't
>> >cross the border.
>> >I don't think anybody has tried this and been challenged.
>> >then again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity.
>> >It's easier to ask forgivness than permission...
>> >Another easier excuse would be to publish it freely in
>> >hardcopy form, and just "happen" to have somebody end up
>> >"typing" in your source code abroad, making a legit
>> >international copy...
>> >-Anon2
>> 
>> i would think that the big question here, legally, is whether or not you
>> would be ustilizing a US ISP and/or cellular provider to make the upload
>> of the crypto program to the foreign server via ftp.  as long as all the
>> packets stay outside of US borders, in other words, as long as you don't
>> use a US ISP and cellular provider, then i don't see how you would be
>> violating any laws in this case.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> TATTOOMAN 
>> 
>> http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/
>> 
>Bob De Witt,
>rdew@el.nec.com
>The views expressed herein are my own,
>and are not attributable to any other
>source, be it employer, friend or foe.
> 
>

TATTOOMAN

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> the only relevant question here regards the odds that a US Customs officer
> is going to want you to drop your drawers and bend over...

Reasonably good odds I would say given the reputation of Customs-faggots...

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
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