Re: Democracy...

mmotyka@lsil.com on 16/09/98 20:02:22

Please respond to mmotyka@lsil.com

To:   Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE
cc:   cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject:  Re: Democracy...




>> However, if you believe in something to be life changing and
>> beneficial to both the >individual and society you'll want or be
>> compelled to "pass it on".
>
>Altruistic on the surface. Regarding religion though, why do I always
>get the feeling that when implemented and empowered it is judgemental
>and intolerant of those who do not fall properly in line?
>
Because religion is dead.  It is a set of man made rules interpreting
what God has said.  I do not want to live in a "religious" society any
more than you do.  Theocracy (rule by the church, small "c") is never
a good idea.  Deocracy??? (rule by God) is.  God has already given us
His instructions for healthy life and society.  Most of our laws are
based on them but we keep weakening them to account for our own failings
and desires.

>> What I wanted to illustrate is that there are absolutes, to say there
>> are no obsolutes is in itself an absolute and so is self defeating.
>
>All right Mr. Logic, you're so sharp, give me ONE example of a *moral*
>absolute.
>
It is wrong to abuse children.  I reckon this is built in to just about
all of us.  It is in our nature to protect and defend our children.  No
matter where your are in the world this applies.  Our differing cultures
make some things acceptable to one and not to others but the underlying
nature is still there.  Also we may differ how we accomplish this.

>> We must have absolutes.
>>
>We do: speed of light, mass of the electron, probably, but behavior? We
>have behaviors that facilitate our persistance and propagation as a
>species at ever increasing densities. Operating outside the boundaries
>is neither right nor wrong, simply different. Not necessarily without
>consequences, but simply different. Your yardstick is an hallucination
>to which you cling to forlornly like a kitten clinging to a stick in a
>raging river.
>
>Mike
>
>ps - is 'forlornly' really a word? I think so, but it looks odd today.

Actually the speed of light varies depending on the medium and the mass of
an electron with its velocity.  You may deride my
absolutes but if applied by all we would have no crime, no divorce etc.
Boring??  Not really.  Many diseases and social problems
would cease or be reduced.

Richard,

Flogging a dead horse may serve a purpose: the steaks that show up on
your grocer's shelves might be a bit more tender. I have not tried to
say that morals lack value, simply that they are not absolutes.

> You may deride my absolutes but if applied by all we would have no crime, no 
> divorce etc. Boring??  Not really.  Many diseases and social problems would
> cease or be reduced.
>
One person's Utopia is, invariably, another's Hell. Utopia is not
achievable. Many have tried. All have failed. All future attempts will
fail. Any system that fails to acknowledge this will be insufferable.

Mike

"Heaven, heaven is a place, a place where nothing, nothing ever happens"
-Talking Heads- (More Songs About Buildings and Food?)

PS : are you a Physicist?

> Actually the speed of light varies depending on the medium 
>
This one deserves some reading but I suspect that 'not if you're the
photon'.

> and the mass of an electron with its velocity.
>
Gamma = 1 --> Lorentzian = Newtonian. Gamma = 1 if you are the electron
being measured. It is still the same after it has been accelerated, it
just reads differently from the outside.