Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)

Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at your
description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
disposes of nuclear waste" sort.

Not that people still don't wonder, but I thought I'd temper the technical
grilling I see heating up with some appreciation for the fact that you've
already managed a better impression than 95% of the crypto wannabes
out there.
-- 
	-Colin

At 11:52 PM 9/21/98 -0600, Colin Plumb wrote:
>Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at your
>description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
>the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
>that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
>types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
>sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
>disposes of nuclear waste" sort.
>
>Not that people still don't wonder, but I thought I'd temper the technical
>grilling I see heating up with some appreciation for the fact that you've
>already managed a better impression than 95% of the crypto wannabes
>out there.

Hey, I don't ally myself with the clueless.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com

Colin Plumb wrote:
> 
> Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at your
> description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
> the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
> that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
> types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
> sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
> disposes of nuclear waste" sort.

Clearly I failed to understand this, then:

"This note doesn't tell everything about our method--we *are* developing
a commercial product, after all..."

which somehow doesn't translate to "I can't tell you because it's
secret", it seems.

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
Ben Laurie            |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant  |Fax:   +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd,     |Apache-SSL author     http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England.      |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/

WE'RE RECRUITING! http://www.aldigital.co.uk/

At 11:55 AM 9/22/98 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
>Colin Plumb wrote:
>> 
>> Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at
your
>> description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
>> the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
>> that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
>> types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
>> sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
>> disposes of nuclear waste" sort.
>
>Clearly I failed to understand this, then:
>
>"This note doesn't tell everything about our method--we *are* developing
>a commercial product, after all..."
>
>which somehow doesn't translate to "I can't tell you because it's
>secret", it seems.

Well, _I_ think they can explain everything (and we hope to do an academic
paper on the idea), but it's not my decision.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com

Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
> At 11:55 AM 9/22/98 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
> >Colin Plumb wrote:
> >>
> >> Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at
> your
> >> description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
> >> the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
> >> that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
> >> types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
> >> sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
> >> disposes of nuclear waste" sort.
> >
> >Clearly I failed to understand this, then:
> >
> >"This note doesn't tell everything about our method--we *are* developing
> >a commercial product, after all..."
> >
> >which somehow doesn't translate to "I can't tell you because it's
> >secret", it seems.
> 
> Well, _I_ think they can explain everything (and we hope to do an academic
> paper on the idea), but it's not my decision.

I hope you manage to persaude them then, because, as we all know, if it
is kept secret, then even B. Schneier saying it is great will not rescue
them from the snake-oil branding.

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
Ben Laurie            |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant  |Fax:   +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd,     |Apache-SSL author     http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England.      |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/

WE'RE RECRUITING! http://www.aldigital.co.uk/

At 12:57 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
I hope you manage to persaude them then, because, as we all know, if it
>is kept secret, then even B. Schneier saying it is great will not rescue
>them from the snake-oil branding.

I'm working on it.  I think I will be successful.  They know that they have to
make their sytem public if people are going to use it.  At this point, keeping
things under wraps give them a competitive edge.  There will be a point where
they have to make all the details public.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com