Citizenship silliness. Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism

At 08:24 PM 9/7/98 , Kawika Daguio wrote:
>Bob,
>
>The syllogism at the end of your post is exactly why I have spent the last 
>more than 5 years negotiating and lobbying and why we (FI's) and you 
>(everyone else) shouldn't worry about the impact of government policy on the 
>security of financial communications.  Market (macro and microeconomics 
>plays a bigger role than the government.

So that explains why the U.S. price for e.g., sugar, has exceed the world
price for sugar by 20-30% to as much as 50% for something like 20 years,
right?  Because government efforts at manipulating prices and policies are
useless?  This is, of course, but a single example.

Mr. Hettinga comments:

>Do people out there really think somebody like Gore's going to do a
crypto-amnesty someday?

Please.  Revoking one's citizenship, particularly for a better option- of
which there are many- is hardly the end of the world, and is unlikely to
make one a felon.  It will, in fact, prevent one from becoming one in this
case which is, of course, the point.  Using terms like "Crypto-amnesty" is
just inflammatory.

Mr. Hettinga further comments:

>I expect people who do this crypto-expat stuff are going to get their
>new passports refused at the U.S. border when they visit, and I think that
>things are going to get worse for them for a long time before they get
better.

Of course, this is nonsense.  I know several major U.S. tax offenders who
have several million in liens and civil judgements who return to the United
States on a regular basis, they just don't maintain assets there.  Further,
one of them just recently renewed his U.S. passport at the U.S. consulate
without incident.

Bottom line:  People don't become criminals in the United States because
they leave it.  Consider the ramifications of turning people away at the
border because they are engaged in completely legitimate commercial
practices abroad which are, none the less, undesirable in the United
States?  Christ, the U.S. can't even turn away well known but unconvicted
French Economic Intelligence experts at the border.

I am constantly amused at the attitude of Americans who are convinced that
anyone who lives outside of the "end-all-be-all of the civilized world"
must live in some third world country.  This too is nonsense.  If I were
jurisdiction shopping I'm not sure I'd pick a small African nation, as some
others have, because this state would be extremely unlikely to protect me
from the kind of nastiness that nations are expected to protect citizens
from.  Also, visa-free travel is a pretty big consideration.  Picking a
country not well established in this regard is folly.

Cryptography is the cutting edge of many things, but that situation is
quickly wavering.  It's not long before being a cryptographer is even less
profitable than it is today.  If plying your trade is important, waiting
around for "market forces" to convince the FBI that they have it all wrong
is probably not a good strategy.

Incidentally, if anyone needs assistance contacting the best migration
consultants around, I'd be happy to give you my views and make referrals.

Some of you who want a counterpoint based on something a bit more
substantial than provincial fear mongering might ask after Tim May, who I
recall considered departing the United States but decided against it for a
variety of reasons.

Folks, I generally restrain myself from passing on all the various news
stories I see or read.

But tonight Fox News is reporting that the IRS has said it may seek to
assess "gift taxes" if the guy who recovered Mark McGwire's 61st home
baseball gives the ball back to Mark McGwire.

(The ball is said to have a street value, to museums or collectors, of
$250K or so. The 62nd home run ball, the one which breaks Maris' record,
will supposedly be worth more than a million bucks.)

So, the shmuck who got this ball faces taxes on an unrealized gain if he
never sells the ball. And he gets taxed if he hands the ball back to
McGwire.

He makes no money, but pays 30-40% of some theoretical value in taxes.

Those fuckers in D. C. need to be put out of our misery.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.

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In <v03130300b21a7226574d@[209.66.100.138]>, on 09/07/98 
   at 10:39 PM, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:

>Those fuckers in D. C. need to be put out of our misery.

I agree 110%. This is something I have though long and hard on and have
come to the conclusion that a single strike to take out DC would only lead
to the establishment of a military dictatorship (though I must admit that
watching those bastards fry would almost be worth it <EG>). Eventually
some form of democracy would be restored (but freedoms would be much less
than what we have now) as it is simpler to control the sheeple if they
think they are running things.

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admittedly I'm not an expert on the subject,
but maybe the fan hands it back to mcguire for
authentication--for him to sign it, and return it to
the fan who then owns it. as far as collectors
items, a baseball can't be authenticated otherwise. 
I presume mcguire would have to write something
about "my 62nd home run ball"..

but your point is well taken. the IRS is getting
out of control. frankly I think they are like a huge
crowbar or vice that is slowly pressing down on the population.
all the loopholes are being removed from tax laws,
slowly, quietly. people who had no problem as independent
contractors (such as caddies) now get harassed by
the IRS. also, waiters & bartenders, who never made
much money, got a lot of flack over tips around the
late 80's.

eventually perhaps we'll have one world currency, and absolutely
no means of exchanging it other than through government
tracked mechanisms, all subject to taxes. 
that does seem to be the direction the world is heading.

I've written before on "alternative money systems". no
one here understood my points very well, but I still think
there is major potential for freedom through them. a sort
of 21st century tea party. there are some "barter cards"
that are taking off in various localities. these are
essentially tax-avoidance barter systems..  I hope they
catch on and force a showdown with politicians. eventually
the control freaks will be obvious and will not be
able to hide their tyranny. hopefully. the thing about
the american public though, is that sometimes they stay
asleep & give consent even when the tyrants emerge obvious.