RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

Jim Choate wrote:
> > Lightly? You jest.
> 
> No I don't. I can start a business for as little as $15 to 
> register a DBA and I don't need licenses or other sorts of 
> regulatory permissions.

And you would be stupid to expose yourself to full liability.

Regulation includes much more than licensing and registration. Try
hiring a couple employees, paying freelance individuals, setup office
space, get yourself a company car and do your fed income taxes. Lightly
regulated my ass. If they enforced every word of every code strongly and
literally it would be nearly impossible to conduct business.

> No we shouldn't. The fact that monopolies can exist in this 
> lightly regulated economy is ample evidence

Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation.
 
> If you seriously think this is a heavily regulated market you 
> should do more research into such places as Nazi Germany, 
> Russia, China, etc.

Bullshit again, there is a *big* difference between a regulated market
(mixed capitalist/socialist economy) and a command economy. So because
we don't live in Soviet Russia we should all bend over and take it?

> Monopolies are monopolies, claiming that they will be less 
> abusive in a regulated market than in a free-market just 

Coercive power takes form via regulation. Without it a bad monopoly is a
short-lived one.

> You are claiming that if we do away with the food 
> regulations that McDonalds will be *more* concerned 
> about their meat being cooked thoroughly then you

Liability, liability, liability. Regulation often promotes bad practice
as businesses comply with minimum regulation and nothing more instead of
thinking for themselves. What is worse is government often shields
companies from liability.

> If a market monopolizes there is *NO* competition.

How do you prevent potential competition? Monopoly means both the
absence of existing and potential competition and alternatives.

> If the market is one that takes a large investment in 
> intellectual or capital materials then there
> won't be any opportunity to even attempt to start a 
> competitive venture.

A fluid capital market can finance even the largest of ventures if the
potential return is there. Different markets have different time
schedules, but competition can and will come.

Intellectual Property enforcement is an act of government, it is a force
monopoly, only just and reasonable IP laws limit it. Notice that, bad
laws = bad monopoly, good laws = balanced environment, no laws = no
monopoly. The last of which is not necessarily preferable in this case,
and is a fundamental difference in laissez-faire Vs anarchy.

> Fairness is about the consumer, not the manufacturer.

You have an odd definition of fair. You cannot have fair for the benefit
of one at the expense of another.

> Contractual with who?

With whomever is a part of the framework.

> > reputation for punishment instead of life and liberty, 
> 
> Businesses are neither alive nor do they enjoy liberty. Don't 
> confuse people with systems and objects.

No, do not strip the person from the businesses. A group of people do
not lose any of the rights and liberty of a single individual, neither
do they gain any. Businesses are people.

Commerce is a fundamental right, in order to survive you must be able to
create and dispose of that creation. The lack of the *individual's*
right to freely and easily pursue any and all business pursuits to any
degree is an act of enslavement of the individual to corporate
aristocracy and bureaucratic whim.

	Matt

--
At 02:18 PM 10/1/98 -0500, Kevin Elliott wrote:
> I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing.  Pick up
> any college (hell, high school) ecomonics textbook.
> Certain types of businesses are inheritly advantagious to
> monopolies.  The electric company is the classic example-
> their is no cost effective way for an electric company to
> supply power to a given area unless it is a monopoly.
> Certain types of businesses are suited to certain types of
> competition, and, unregulated, monopolies are exactly what
> you get.  This was exactly the situation that occured at 
> the turn of the century and it happened because regulation
> was non-existant!   

Bullshit.  No monopoly has ever happened except by regulation
I have no idea what you are referring to in your reference to
the turn of the century.  If you are referring to standard
oil, you are parroting silly communist propaganda with no
basis in reality.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     jeE+LNH/f8RnmYDChWQ48wf3pqRR6WcCMCJYSUXI
     45eF2HkK+9DX6z7XPNhbGoHJc96S3SuJ9SBUnw+iJ
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald

--
At 12:30 AM 10/1/98 -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
> Regulation includes much more than licensing and
> registration. Try hiring a couple employees, paying
> freelance individuals, setup office space, get yourself a
> company car and do your fed income taxes. Lightly regulated
> my ass. If they enforced every word of every code strongly
> and literally it would be nearly impossible to conduct
> business.

To the best of my observation, every single small business is
operating illegally. The situation differs from Russia only
in degree, not in kind

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     ijgrm6mPtp+ITpiypBMGLzXsIs6lHQrzIqUz4YVV
     43IJ5kE5GhIslIQSgCTgRQZID2XvL+MfwFf/uPGD8
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald

At 2:37 PM -0400 on 10/4/98, James A. Donald wrote:

> To the best of my observation, every single small business is
> operating illegally.

Amen. Literally.

That is, when the church ruled our lives, it was impossible not to be
sinning for some reason.

These days, the state rules our lives, and we're all breaking the law.

Most criminologists will tell that the more corrupt the jurisdiction, the
harder it is to be in compliance with the law. That way, it's easier for
the state's functionaries to shake you down.

Ayn Rand has a great quote about this, which I have long forgotten, but my
favorite bit of impromptu wisdom on the subject is from Vinnie Moscaritolo,
who blurted out one night, on a long climb up Page Mill road, "'If we could
just pass a few more laws', we could all be criminals!"


Also, Voltaire was famous for saying, in French of course :-), 'death to la
infame' (le? I took latin instead, and was bad at it, anyway.). By la
infame, "the infamous thing", he meant the church, of course. While it
probably sounds a little haughtier than "smash the state", (or, as I am
wont say, *surfact* the state ;-)), Voltaire's saying, in the original,
might make a nice slogan to, um, resurrect, if someone wants to dust off
their college french and do the honors...

Odd thing for a man to say who was buried in the floor of a church anyway.
It'd be like putting Mr. Young in Arlington, or something. ;-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@philodox.com>
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Said Matthew James Gering,

>Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation.

I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing.  Pick up any college
(hell, high school) ecomonics textbook.  Certain types of businesses are
inheritly advantagious to monopolies.  The electric company is the classic
example- their is no cost effective way for an electric company to supply
power to a given area unless it is a monopoly.  Certain types of businesses
are suited to certain types of competition, and, unregulated, monopolies
are exactly what you get.  This was exactly the situation that occured at
the turn of the century and it happened because regulation was
non-existant!  Your statement is wonderfully trite but I see no evidence to
support it.



___________________________________________________________________________
"DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq,
Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70
million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note
that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone
do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times

-Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott <mailto:k-elliott@wiu.edu>

At 2:18 PM -0500 10/1/98, Kevin Elliott wrote:
>Said Matthew James Gering,
>
>>Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation.
>
>I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing.  Pick up any college
>(hell, high school) ecomonics textbook.  Certain types of businesses are
>inheritly advantagious to monopolies.  The electric company is the classic
>example- their is no cost effective way for an electric company to supply
>power to a given area unless it is a monopoly.  Certain types of businesses
>are suited to certain types of competition, and, unregulated, monopolies
>are exactly what you get.  This was exactly the situation that occured at
>the turn of the century and it happened because regulation was
>non-existant!  Your statement is wonderfully trite but I see no evidence to
>support it.

	I'd suggest you go back to school and think a bit.In most places
the "Electric Company" is a goverment sponsored and deligated monopoly.
Competition is prohibited by REGULATION. This also occurs with Gas, Water,
Telephone, especially Non-commercial, cable, and in some places Garbage
disposal.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.