RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:42:58 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com>
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> Microsoft is not a monopoly.  In servers, where much of their
> income comes from,

Malarky, MS makes the vast majority of their money off end-user and single
machine licenses. Look at their quarterly or yearly earning statements.

> Linux is eating their lunch,

It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of orders of
magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market. When it comes to mission
critical servers Solaris, HP, & AIX own the market still.

> and the
> desktop is under continual threat.  For a monopoly to be a
> monopoly, you not only have to have most of the market, you
> have to have some means of excluding others, which Microsoft
> manifestly does not.

Not from a lack of trying on their part and the fact that federal regulators
stepped in before it became totaly regulated.

> You are totally deluded.  None of these are examples of
> monopoly,

Certainly they were. Each and every example listed (and many more) were
industries which were controlled by a small number of companies whose share
in the total market was squeezing out competition. The results would have
been a growing number of buyouts and thinning of competition to the point
that only one or two companies would have survived.

 except for the railroad industry where government
> intervention was for the purpose of creating monopoly, not
> preventing it.

In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of riders was growing
very quickly there was a concommitent increase in end-user ticket prices
that was way out of line with the increased cost of business operations as
well as a decrease in the overall safety of the industry which was
exemplified by a increase in the number of air crashes and aircraft who
couldn't pass maintenance inspections yet continued to fly.
 
> The garment and food packing industries were and are a huge
> network of innumerable tiny shops,

All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and distributed
the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for that period (it's a
distribution hub for the clothing/garment industry even today).

> and the aircraft industry
> had several big companies in fierce competition.=20

Yep, in the mid-50's there were like 5 national/international aircraft
operators and the number of commercial avaition manufacturers selling to the
national and international carrier market was like 3. There were smaller
companies like Ryan for example but they were owned by the larger companies
and eventualy merged into the regular operations.


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At 3:24 PM -0500 10/4/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:42:58 -0700
>> From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com>
>> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
>
>> Microsoft is not a monopoly.  In servers, where much of their
>> income comes from,
>
>Malarky, MS makes the vast majority of their money off end-user and single
>machine licenses. Look at their quarterly or yearly earning statements.

	Ummm...Ever hear of this little start up in Cupertino called Apple?
Has a couple billion in the bank, net profits last quarter larger than Dell
&etc.

>> Linux is eating their lunch,
>
>It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of orders of
>magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market. When it comes to mission
>critical servers Solaris, HP, & AIX own the market still.

	So M$ STILL doesn't have a monopoly.

>> and the
>> desktop is under continual threat.  For a monopoly to be a
>> monopoly, you not only have to have most of the market, you
>> have to have some means of excluding others, which Microsoft
>> manifestly does not.
>
>Not from a lack of trying on their part and the fact that federal regulators
>stepped in before it became totaly regulated.

	Crap, the Feds stepped in just as market forces were starting to
weaken Microsoft. Linux is starting to eat into the server market, Apple is
coming back out of it's slump, more and more people are starting to realize
home bad M$ is.


>> You are totally deluded.  None of these are examples of
>> monopoly,
>
>Certainly they were. Each and every example listed (and many more) were
>industries which were controlled by a small number of companies whose share
>in the total market was squeezing out competition. The results would have
>been a growing number of buyouts and thinning of competition to the point
>that only one or two companies would have survived.

	Other than the Railroads, which have already been shown to be a
government CREATED monopoly, how was the Aircraft Industry a monopoly? The
GARMENT INDUSTRY?

	Come on Jim, "Put Up Or Shut Up".

> except for the railroad industry where government
>> intervention was for the purpose of creating monopoly, not
>> preventing it.
>
>In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of riders was growing
>very quickly there was a concommitent increase in end-user ticket prices
>that was way out of line with the increased cost of business operations as
>well as a decrease in the overall safety of the industry which was
>exemplified by a increase in the number of air crashes and aircraft who
>couldn't pass maintenance inspections yet continued to fly.

	Doesn't sound like a monopoly issue as much as a saftey issue.
Nothing there looks like a conspiracy to prevent other from entering the
market.


>> The garment and food packing industries were and are a huge
>> network of innumerable tiny shops,
>
>All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and distributed
>the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for that period (it's a
>distribution hub for the clothing/garment industry even today).

	That is still 5 or 6 companies in competition.

>> and the aircraft industry
>> had several big companies in fierce competition.=20
>
>Yep, in the mid-50's there were like 5 national/international aircraft
>operators and the number of commercial avaition manufacturers selling to the
>national and international carrier market was like 3. There were smaller
>companies like Ryan for example but they were owned by the larger companies
>and eventualy merged into the regular operations.

	What barriers OTHER THAN REGULATORY/LEGAL did they raise to
competitors?
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.

>> Microsoft is not a monopoly.  [...]  Linux is eating their
>> lunch,

At 03:24 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of
> orders of magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market.
> When it comes to mission critical servers Solaris, HP, &
> AIX own the market still.

The number one server is not Microsoft, and is not
commercial.

And if it was commercial, Microsoft would still be being
eaten alive in the server market.  They still have their
lunch in the end user market, but the wolves are eyeing that
also.

> In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of
> riders was growing very quickly there was a concommitent
> increase in end-user ticket prices that was way out of line
> with the increased cost of business operations as well as
> [...]

When you make up facts it is customary to invent names,
places, and dates in order to give the appearance of
verisimilitude.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     37RmYMVajW0Tw1f5iy1gJUreAXMZoIsD71kbTgi2
     4A/lXSKOHk7Ru9/A6+FhVDSgj9sBgAyDS57+IF402

-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald

>> It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of
>> orders of magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market.
>> When it comes to mission critical servers Solaris, HP, &
>> AIX own the market still.
>
>The number one server is not Microsoft, and is not commercial.

Apache is the #1 server if you count by "web sites on the Internet".
Lots of web sites aren't on the Internet, but inside corporate nets,
which are more likely to be running commercial software, whether
commercial or NT, while people with home machines obviously prefer free.

But what if you count by "pages served per day"?  High-volume servers
are likely to run on bigger machines than low-volume servers,
so they're more likely to be running commercial Unix,
though some may be running on multi-Pentium systems with NT.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639