RE: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN]

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jim Choate [SMTP:ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, December 24, 1998 4:43 PM
> To:	cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
> Subject:	Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN]
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > X-within-URL:
> http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9812/23/BC-Norway-NameLaws.ap/
> 
> > Mother of 14 jailed for violating Norway's baby-name law
> > 
> >    December 23, 1998
> >    Web posted at: 9:52 AM EST (1452 GMT)
> >    
> >    
> >    OSLO, Norway (AP) -- A mother of 14 was jailed this week because she
> >    refused to change the name she picked for her young son, even though
> >    that violated Norway's name law.
> >    
> >    Kirsti Larsen, 46, told the Verdens Gang newspaper that she named her
> >    son Gesher after she dreamed the child should be named "bridge."
> >    Gesher means bridge in Hebrew.
> >    
> >    Norway has strict laws regulating names, including lists of
> acceptable
> >    first and last names. In 1995, Larsen tried to register her son's
> name
> >    as Gesher at her local county office, which rejected the choice as
> >    illegal.
> 
> [text deleted]
> 
	[Trei, Peter]  
	This is the case in many countries - Germany and
	France for two.

	In Iceland, immigrants are required to change their
	names to Norse ones as part of the citizenship
	process.

	Peter Trei

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Icelandic last names, and old Norse last names in general, change,
algorithimically, every generation.

Your "last" name, if male, is your father's first name with "son" after it.

If you're female it's your mother's first name, with, I believe "dottir"
(daughter) after it.

So, if your parents are Eric (say :-)), and, um, Helga, and you're male and
your name is Lief, your name would be (oddly enough) Lief Ericsson.

If you're female, and your name is, oh, Greta, (I don't know many female Norse
names, and that's probably not one, Miss Garbo to the contrary) then your name
would be Greta Helgasdottir, or something like that.

Icelanders on the list will correct the specifics, of course. The price of
error is bandwidth, and all that, but you get the idea.

So, no matter who your are, if you're to become an Icelandic citizen, your
last name changes.

Mine, since my family's Fresian, would change from "Hettinga" ("guy who lives
on a hill", which almost everyone did, or they lived in a swamp :-)), to
"Ralphson", which, fortunately, is almost passable Icelandic. Actually,
Frisians, the bad guys in Beowulf, could almost pass for Norse in general, as
anyone who's met me might testify.

Think of it as an anonymous renamer?

:-).


Cheers,
Robert Hettinga

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-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@philodox.com>
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

At 5:59 PM -0800 12/31/98, Reeza! wrote:

>THAT is _almost_ understandable. You say that Iceland requires immigrants
>to change their names to Norse ones, you didn't say to Norse ones on the
>approved list. or Norse ones avoiding those on the disapproved list. Does
>Iceland have the same "children who are born here are Icelandic citizens,
>regardless of the nationality of the parents" provision of the US
>constitution?

Is that written into the Constitution? I wasn't aware of that. If so, I
will have learned something new tonight, perhaps the last major new thing I
learn in 1998.

There is talk of changing this law (or, I suppose, item in the C.) which
allows and even encourages pregnant Mexicans and Salvadorans and
Guatemalans to sneak into the U.S. just in time to have their babies in an
American hospital, thus making the children American citizens (and mustn't
separate mother from child, right?).

Israel of course has laws allowing anyone born of a Jewish mother to
"return" to Israel...never mind that they may have essentially no genetic
content of any ancestor who ever lived in Palestine, even the Palestine of
3500 years ago.

Ireland has a fairly new law which allows anyone with any Irish born
grandparents or parents to get Irish citizenship.

(Both Israel and Ireland, and presumably other places, would like to
encourage wealthy Americans to relocate.)

>About the only place I can think of where prohibiting certain names might-
>might be justifiable, is in countries where the names of certain criminals
>are associated with crimes of such heinous magnitude that it would create
>an emotional burden the viable tissue mass would never be able to overcome.
>'Adolf Hitler' Xxxxxx, 'Charles Manson' Yyyyyy, or 'Hannibal Lector' Zzzzz,
>(heh) for example. It's just another case of jingoism (maintaining their
>culture re: populace naming conventions) and religious persecution (the
>babies name is hebrew, the mother of 10 claims christianity for her own),,,

It is not the function of a legitimate government to pass laws to stop
"emotional burdens" on children. If it were, then various religions which
expose the children of practicitioners to ridicule would be candidates for
banning.


As with so many things, Reeza!!, you need to carefully think about these
political issues. Frankly, from the views you often express, I wonder why
you support freely available unbreakable and untraceable communications.

--Tim May




We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
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